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	<title>Comments on: Food miles: do they matter?</title>
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	<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/</link>
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		<title>By: The locavore myth or why vegetarians will save the world &#171; The Quotidian</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-32635</link>
		<dc:creator>The locavore myth or why vegetarians will save the world &#171; The Quotidian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-32635</guid>
		<description>[...] raising animals for food is grossly inefficient both in terms of yield and its effect on the land, the way to make the most immediate and significant difference on carbon emissions is to reduce the n... into the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] raising animals for food is grossly inefficient both in terms of yield and its effect on the land, the way to make the most immediate and significant difference on carbon emissions is to reduce the n&#8230; into the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Glutton</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19641</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Glutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19641</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure whether to applaud Marion Nestle for calling attention to a paper that runs against the prevailing orthodoxy of the localvore movement or to be appalled by her attempted revisionism. A brief trip to Google will reveal that, for most localvores, reducing carbon footprint is the cake, not the icing, for food miles. For a more complete critique, see http://bit.ly/WVzvW.

In saying, &quot;I’ve always thought that the real benefits of local food production were in building and preserving communities.  I like having farms within easy access of where I live and I like knowing the people who produce my food,&quot; Nestle (correctly, IMO) states that eating locally is primarily about aesthetics. But what if it turns out (as may well be the case) that localvorism actually *increases* GHG emissions? How would localvores choose in that case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure whether to applaud Marion Nestle for calling attention to a paper that runs against the prevailing orthodoxy of the localvore movement or to be appalled by her attempted revisionism. A brief trip to Google will reveal that, for most localvores, reducing carbon footprint is the cake, not the icing, for food miles. For a more complete critique, see <a href="http://bit.ly/WVzvW" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/WVzvW</a>.</p>
<p>In saying, &#8220;I’ve always thought that the real benefits of local food production were in building and preserving communities.  I like having farms within easy access of where I live and I like knowing the people who produce my food,&#8221; Nestle (correctly, IMO) states that eating locally is primarily about aesthetics. But what if it turns out (as may well be the case) that localvorism actually *increases* GHG emissions? How would localvores choose in that case?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19639</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19639</guid>
		<description>This argument has been made before, especially by the Freakenomists in the NYTimes.  I find it may be good science but wishy-washy logic.

Food miles can and do matter; not if you are comparing apples to meat, but rather, obviously apples to apples.  If you live in New York, which has less environmental impact, apples grown in-state or apples shipped in from Washington?  Or put another way, just because one thing has an effect on emissions does not mean another thing can also have an effect.  Or one more way, which thing CAN you do.  For instance, you may be able to switch apples more easily than you can give up hamburgers.

As to the containers/trains are more efficient.  That may be true in the large sense, but it still does not mean things balance out.  More importantly, do we buy our Chilean grapes at the dock?  Do you think that this food-stuff is never subject to a panel truck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This argument has been made before, especially by the Freakenomists in the NYTimes.  I find it may be good science but wishy-washy logic.</p>
<p>Food miles can and do matter; not if you are comparing apples to meat, but rather, obviously apples to apples.  If you live in New York, which has less environmental impact, apples grown in-state or apples shipped in from Washington?  Or put another way, just because one thing has an effect on emissions does not mean another thing can also have an effect.  Or one more way, which thing CAN you do.  For instance, you may be able to switch apples more easily than you can give up hamburgers.</p>
<p>As to the containers/trains are more efficient.  That may be true in the large sense, but it still does not mean things balance out.  More importantly, do we buy our Chilean grapes at the dock?  Do you think that this food-stuff is never subject to a panel truck?</p>
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		<title>By: Maya</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19565</link>
		<dc:creator>Maya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 08:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19565</guid>
		<description>Assuming the maths and the assumptions in this study are right it seems to say that the local food movement is really more of a hobby than, as it proponents suggest, the vanguard for a new and more sustainable way of meeting people&#039;s nutrition needs. 

Marion likes to chat to farmers, dig her garden, cook for pleasure etc... some people like to watch their local football team, go out all night clubbing, make model trains, skateboard whatever...its all good stuff but none of it stands up to the claim that &#039;everyone ought to do this to make our society sustainable.

 This research seems to say that &#039;eat less meat&#039; is a message that does stand up to this claim while &#039;watch your food miles&#039; doesn&#039;t. 

The big danger with the food miles approach is that it attacks the markets for food exporters in developing countries (Kenyan green beans, South African fruit etc...) who need the income just as much if not more than your local community. 

The &#039;food miles&#039; concept has been pushed with a message about relative carbon footprints that this research seems to indicate just isn&#039;t true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming the maths and the assumptions in this study are right it seems to say that the local food movement is really more of a hobby than, as it proponents suggest, the vanguard for a new and more sustainable way of meeting people&#8217;s nutrition needs. </p>
<p>Marion likes to chat to farmers, dig her garden, cook for pleasure etc&#8230; some people like to watch their local football team, go out all night clubbing, make model trains, skateboard whatever&#8230;its all good stuff but none of it stands up to the claim that &#8216;everyone ought to do this to make our society sustainable.</p>
<p> This research seems to say that &#8216;eat less meat&#8217; is a message that does stand up to this claim while &#8216;watch your food miles&#8217; doesn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>The big danger with the food miles approach is that it attacks the markets for food exporters in developing countries (Kenyan green beans, South African fruit etc&#8230;) who need the income just as much if not more than your local community. </p>
<p>The &#8216;food miles&#8217; concept has been pushed with a message about relative carbon footprints that this research seems to indicate just isn&#8217;t true.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Glutton</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19547</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Glutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 01:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19547</guid>
		<description>Shastan, had you bothered to look at the paper, you&#039;d have seen the funding sources clearly stated, &quot;This work was funded by
an EPA Science to Achieve Results Fellowship to C.L.W., and
National Science Foundation (NSF) MUSES grant 06-28232.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shastan, had you bothered to look at the paper, you&#8217;d have seen the funding sources clearly stated, &#8220;This work was funded by<br />
an EPA Science to Achieve Results Fellowship to C.L.W., and<br />
National Science Foundation (NSF) MUSES grant 06-28232.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19484</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19484</guid>
		<description>Whether local or not, one often-missed beauty of knowing exactly what&#039;s on your plate and how it got there is that you can provide direct feedback to the producer(s) or others that helped bring that  food from farm to fork. A farmer or purveyor can then use that feedback - positive or negative - to make improvements in his or her program.  Farmers are rarely rewarded for creating great tasting food.  What an opportunity to create a win-win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether local or not, one often-missed beauty of knowing exactly what&#8217;s on your plate and how it got there is that you can provide direct feedback to the producer(s) or others that helped bring that  food from farm to fork. A farmer or purveyor can then use that feedback &#8211; positive or negative &#8211; to make improvements in his or her program.  Farmers are rarely rewarded for creating great tasting food.  What an opportunity to create a win-win.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19428</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 10:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19428</guid>
		<description>Food Not Lawns! Get rid of the lawnmower and grow a garden. Plant fruit trees and berry bushes. Barter with neighbors. 

Mass produced food has only been around for about 100 years. Let&#039;s not keep it around for another hundred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Food Not Lawns! Get rid of the lawnmower and grow a garden. Plant fruit trees and berry bushes. Barter with neighbors. </p>
<p>Mass produced food has only been around for about 100 years. Let&#8217;s not keep it around for another hundred.</p>
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		<title>By: Shastan</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-19394</link>
		<dc:creator>Shastan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 06:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-19394</guid>
		<description>Hmmn . . .  a study claiming that food miles don&#039;t really matter?  Um, sorry, but my first thought after that is &quot;So who funded this study? Someone in the shipping industry? Or was it PETA?&quot;  There have been numerous studies proving that what any study is paid to prove gets proven.  I doubt this particular study was &quot;hands-off&quot; funded.

The &quot;Eat less meat&quot; thing - well, that would depend on how much of what meat you normally eat (Duh!).  An oversimplified, broad sweeping brush stroke such as this does not address reality.  There are so many issues that this just doesn&#039;t acknowledge.  

Eating locally does begin to address many of these issues.  Eating food you know, eating food you tended and raised, eating food someone you can check up on tended and raised, eating food consciously grown/raised in ethical manners that consciously support the local ecology and economy, . . .  I&#039;m with you:  Local matters.  Local makes a difference.  

Great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmn . . .  a study claiming that food miles don&#8217;t really matter?  Um, sorry, but my first thought after that is &#8220;So who funded this study? Someone in the shipping industry? Or was it PETA?&#8221;  There have been numerous studies proving that what any study is paid to prove gets proven.  I doubt this particular study was &#8220;hands-off&#8221; funded.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Eat less meat&#8221; thing &#8211; well, that would depend on how much of what meat you normally eat (Duh!).  An oversimplified, broad sweeping brush stroke such as this does not address reality.  There are so many issues that this just doesn&#8217;t acknowledge.  </p>
<p>Eating locally does begin to address many of these issues.  Eating food you know, eating food you tended and raised, eating food someone you can check up on tended and raised, eating food consciously grown/raised in ethical manners that consciously support the local ecology and economy, . . .  I&#8217;m with you:  Local matters.  Local makes a difference.  </p>
<p>Great post!</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-18729</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 17:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-18729</guid>
		<description>@Howard - I appreciate your call for realism, and am well aware of the high prices at farmers market, but I think the elitism label is a little unfair.  A hundred years ago, on average up to half a household&#039;s yearly income was spent on food.  That figure has dropped to the single digits, and we have used the money &quot;saved&quot; on iPods, cable TV, other luxuries....and drug/doctor&#039;s bills.

If we really truly want people to eat healthier, at some point the message has to get out there that it&#039;s going to cost more than what we spend now.  I once heard someone bemoan the fact that a dozen eggs from chickens fed purely free-range/organic food would cost $12.  That seems astronomical, but compare the nutrition in a $1 egg to a $1 soda or candybar and you realize that it&#039;s a much much better deal.

@All - I didn&#039;t read the study, but I cannot take seriously anyone who says &quot;eat less meat&quot;.  Eat less factory farmed grain-fed meat?  Sure.  Eat less free range organic meat?  Go take a hike - I refuse to pretend to be an herbivore.  That&#039;s like asking me to be a homosexual to reduce overpopulation - denying the biological reality that we are omnivores is a recipe for disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Howard &#8211; I appreciate your call for realism, and am well aware of the high prices at farmers market, but I think the elitism label is a little unfair.  A hundred years ago, on average up to half a household&#8217;s yearly income was spent on food.  That figure has dropped to the single digits, and we have used the money &#8220;saved&#8221; on iPods, cable TV, other luxuries&#8230;.and drug/doctor&#8217;s bills.</p>
<p>If we really truly want people to eat healthier, at some point the message has to get out there that it&#8217;s going to cost more than what we spend now.  I once heard someone bemoan the fact that a dozen eggs from chickens fed purely free-range/organic food would cost $12.  That seems astronomical, but compare the nutrition in a $1 egg to a $1 soda or candybar and you realize that it&#8217;s a much much better deal.</p>
<p>@All &#8211; I didn&#8217;t read the study, but I cannot take seriously anyone who says &#8220;eat less meat&#8221;.  Eat less factory farmed grain-fed meat?  Sure.  Eat less free range organic meat?  Go take a hike &#8211; I refuse to pretend to be an herbivore.  That&#8217;s like asking me to be a homosexual to reduce overpopulation &#8211; denying the biological reality that we are omnivores is a recipe for disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.foodpolitics.com/2009/05/food-miles-do-they-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-18646</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foodpolitics.com/?p=1346#comment-18646</guid>
		<description>I feel that the value of considering food miles is in its sustainability, in addition to its environmental impact.  Eating local not only contributes to communities but it is a safeguard against fluctuating energy costs or volatile trade relationships.  The more local options we have, we are better off in the long run- for the environment and security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that the value of considering food miles is in its sustainability, in addition to its environmental impact.  Eating local not only contributes to communities but it is a safeguard against fluctuating energy costs or volatile trade relationships.  The more local options we have, we are better off in the long run- for the environment and security.</p>
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