Food Politics

I saw the last episode (in which he tries to get the kids to eat chicken for lunch) and am not surprised by the final outcome. He encountered so much resistance (from the adults AND the kids!) that it would have taken a minor miracle for things to come out in his favor.

However, I think the more important work is taking place in the people’s homes- he seemed to really make an impact with the one family he visited. If changes can take place at home first, maybe those kids would choose the “real food” option at the cafeteria. But if they’ve never been exposed to it in the first place, it’s no surprise they don’t choose it on their own.

Thank you for some common sense!

“Since when do kids get to decide what’s best for them to eat? Isn’t that an adult responsibility?”

Yes, indeed. And adults need to do a better job of leading by example.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Marion Nestle, Jaime Green, Geek's Dream Girl, Yoni Freedhoff, Katie Hobson and others. Katie Hobson said: RT @marionnestle: Jamie Oliver's program evaluated and the kids miss their flavored milk… http://cli.gs/eveBE [...]

Can we all agree that flavored milk is not “milk” since it’s mostly high fructose corn syrup?

Thanks for posting this — I like the breakdown of what’s happened since. While I do think it’s adults’ responsibility to set good examples and guide food consumption, I think the most telling question is #2 — what happened to food lunch consumption. Down instead of up? (On question #1, I only find that helpful in comparison to what kids think of their regular food… maybe they hate 80% of the regular food). It looks like this was truly a made-for-TV event, and not as well thought out as some other efforts (ones that for example include long-term planting and tending of gardens and inclusion of kid-grown items over and over again).

recently i watched the UK version of this same show. at first alot of kids completely hated the new healthy food! there was even a sort of black market for the older kids to leave school and bring back junk food for younger kids. in the UK lunch participation dropped when the kids first saw healthy stuff. early on kids flocked to getting sandwiches instead of hot food from the cafeteria. oliver countered by filling sandwiches with non delimeat and lots of greens.

as time went on (it took a few semesters of school) the kids warmed up to the food and the numbers went back to normal.

yes preparing meals from scratch will probably cost more and take more time to complete. i dont know how this US version will end but in the end of the UK one he was able to get the cost of the lunches to within budget, id bet he will do the same with the US version (seeing as how he’s done it once before).

the only comment that surprises me is that his meals did not match USDA guidelines for fat. if thats the case i would highly doubt the processed stuff met the guidelines either in that fact.

one of the more funny parts of this show is when oliver gets scolded for adding salt to his dishes. the ladies yell “you cant add salt, we’re not allowed” (all of those processed foods they are reheating probably by themselves have a full days serving of salt each).

these responses do not surprise me, they should have taken into account how the UK kids fared, which in the end, was quite well.

What I want to know is why can’t water be an option in kid’s lunches, rather than just milk? Also, it takes repetition to get kids to want to eat healthier foods…

It’s interesting you post this when results from Jamie’s work at one England school are published.

Go to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8593443.stm

“Since when do kids get to decide what’s best for them to eat? Isn’t that an adult responsibility?”

I think that depends on the people to whom you are talking. I guess it’s always adults, but many people think it isn’t even up to individual adults to choose their children’s foods. Father no longer knows best. Only Big Brother can decide what you may eat.

I have to be honest, that school felt a little Twilight Zone (could have had something to do with the camera crew being there), from the kids misidentifying vegetables to the pizza breakfast… I’m trying to think back to when I was in elementary school- only about 12 years ago now- and if we would have been spitting out field greens like those kids. Probably not; I went to a pretty standard public school, but nutrition was at least “a thing” and even around age 9 or 10 the big concern was that little girls were going to become anorexic. I liked the show, but I think there’s a contradiction in there somewhere. You can’t say that a town is the unhealthiest in America, and then try to make it a representative sample.

Marion,

Those results are not very surprising. As you have noted, we are bombarded by over 10,000 food commercials annually. And candidly, most people love the food that is loaded with fat, sugar, salt, and chemicals.

I was fascinated by the website…This is why you are fat, so I decided to take photos of many TV food commercials (http://bit.ly/4QikjZ)…and it’s safe to say: “This is why we are fat.”

Maybe we need Jack Bauer to get involved with this Food Revolution.

Ken Leebow

His work, like so much in the media about food, is inherently ephemeral and sets up false dichotomies.

That said, I think he has been successful in bringing the conversation to the forefront of American culture, i.e. television, and could be the start to a promising shift in perspective. This will only happen if we as a culture can unite around the idea that we need to feed our children well.

My main fear is his approach. I appreciate the idea that we need to stir things up, but I also think it’s incredibly important to meet people where they are and make small steps, rather than beat them over the heads with what they’re doing wrong and that they need to immediately move to the ideal. Small changes are obviously more lasting.

Jamie Oliver was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t. There is no way that this town can be so blind to the unhealthiness of their food choices, not when there is a plethora of information available, most of it for free. If they choose to be lazy, if they choose to not care that they are condemning themselves and their children to a life of diseases that could easily be prevented, well, let them be. If they refuse to take advantage of this opportunity then Oliver should take his message elsewhere.

I echo the above sentiment: let them drink water! No milk is preferable to HFCS-laden milk products. And kids shouldn’t determine what kids eat. They only have an elementary school education with no knowledge of cost/benefit analysis, limited experience in delayed gratification, and little sense of caution for risky behaviors. They’re kids! Children are adults’ responsibility; to care for, to nurture, to teach truth.

Nutrition is a process. You’re wise in suggesting introduction at the start of the school year. It takes support from families actually preparing meals of whole foods. If the kids get radically different food at school from what they are served at home, there’s little chance of success. Everyone has to agree that whole foods are the right choice, and act on that premise. We cannot tear down and rebuild food habits in a day, a month, or a tv season. It takes long-term commitment.

Worthwhile things are rarely easy, especially changing life-long habits. Engaging kids in the food preparation process -– at home and at school through home ec type classes — is a gigantic step in the direction of food freedom from the massive doses of salt, sugar and artificial additives in prepared food products. It’s always a good idea to teach people how to feed themselves. That way they’ll eat for a healthy, long lifetime.

Rip beat me to posting the results of Jamie’s food revolution in the UK, and the results – that compare to the rise in test scores with the 90s “literacy hour” results – are very positive. Oliver had a lot of fight with people, especially the lunch ladies, in trying to change things in the UK, too. The ultimate difference, though, appears to be in how the adults Oliver is interacting with, view his program. In the UK, they were suspicious – right up until the change in foods and eating habits were seen as working. Then they were all happy to do what it took to help the students. The adults in the US seem much more wedded to this notion of laziness and lack of responsibility for their actions – even when those actions are harming the children entrusted to their care.

I would like to have seen the answers to some of those questions before Jamie came into town!

Even though there is going to be a cheese-ball, reality show affect to his efforts, I like that Jamie is raising awareness of some of the health and nutrition efforts we face today. Unfortunately, the average American probably listens more to attentively to a celebrity than a health professional or teacher, so at least this celeb is trying to do something good.

I didn’t watch the show. I don’t have time for much TV right now. I mostly read this site because I respect Dr. Nestle’s opinion on food issues.

But wow, the holier-than-thou judgmentalism in some of these comments is moving me to reply. I have to ask: how many of you who are slamming the adults have actually tried to feed a child lately?

I can’t make my child eat anything. I can put together healthy meals, which I try to do. I can keep junk out of our house, which for the most part I do. But I can’t force her to eat something that she doesn’t want to eat, and if you think it is a good idea for me to try to do so, I recommend you go and read some of Ellyn Satter’s books.

My kids aren’t school age yet, so I haven’t had to make decisions about school lunches. But I am not at all inclined to judge those parents who pulled their kids from the school lunch program. I suspect that most are doing the best that they can.

I agree with Alicia- look at where people are at, look at the context in which they have to make any changes work, and then work with them to find changes that will work for them. But I don’t think that would make good television.

These results don’t surprise me. School-food reformers have long faced resistance from parents/cooks who see criticism of school food as criticism of themselves (since they may not eat any better at home). And these same adults are the ones who think kids won’t eat anything except chicken nuggets and colored “milk.” So I think the earlier point about context is important. If kids are indocrinated to eat a certain way, you can’t change that overnight. It’s why I’m such a staunch advocate for educating kids themselves about food. Yes, adults make the decisions, but the earlier we teach our kids about food, the better equipped they’ll be to make good choices. I write a blog about this very topic. It’s called Spoonfed: Raising kids to think about the food they eat (http://www.spoonfedblog.net). Regardless of these survey results, though, I have little doubt that Oliver’s show is going to have an impact. If it raises awareness at all, we’re ahead of the game.

I honestly thought I would hate his show. Assumed it would be all alarmist-opportunist grandstanding to build the Jamie Oliver brand. To my surprise I found it to be just the opposite. Unlike so many before him who can only point out the problems, this guy is actually making an honest effort to try to educate and provide real solutions that can help ordinary people. He is on his feet working under tough conditions, slicing, chopping and sweating, not just blowing smoke from some insolated academic office. He should be congratulated and supported for this effort.

I started watching Jamie Oliver’s show after I saw his talk on TED. Previously I have sporadically took time to find information about how his UK campaign went.

I guess knowing more about the US now, I didn’t find those first episodes of his show surprising. It was interesting to contrast with my own experiences growing up in Europe. Even Mr. Oliver alluded to these: teachers would send you back until you polished off your meal, so you could sit there for an hour over your plate, or finish it off in 20 minutes, and go play with the other kids. Your choice. That’s how I learned to like spinach, green peas, lentil soup, etc.

Also, the teachers were not only there to make sure we ate everything, they also walked around teaching the younger kids how to use knives, cutting their Schnitzel to bite-size pieces for them.

As for home cooking…people didn’t have money to buy “plastic food”, we had veggies from our own garden, which we tended as well. My parents most certainly told us what to eat. But they ate the same thing, and we could participate in planning out meals for the week. You learn about negotiation and compromise.

I did rebel against eating a particular dish once, (note: once!) since no matter how annoyed I got, my parents did not allow me to eat something else or leave the table until I ate half of it. And I guess I ought to mention, it didn’t damage my relationship with my parents. And I wasn’t permanently scarred by it either. These things make kids learn about rules: one does not only have rights, but also responsibilities and obligations. This was an oft-repeated lesson in our household.

Now I got really distracted, I just wanted to recommend the “Ann Cooper talks school lunches” video from TED. I’ve always loved everything about food, but that video was the one that made me inquire more into the US food situation. I found her accomplishments very inspiring!

I think Andros has an excellent point: kids often hate what they’re unfamiliar with. A proven way to get kids (and adults, for that matter) to enjoy new foods is to pair those with something the kids already like– cauliflower in cheese sauce, for example.

And, as Rip and others have mentioned here (and thanks for the link!), the results of the similar program in the U.K. are encouraging, at the very least. Reality TV has its faults, for sure, but I applaud programs like this one that get a dialogue going!

I think it’s silly to expect kids tastes to change so quickly. I also disagree with the idea that kids are actually choosing what to eat –it’s either their parents or the government (through school lunches) who are choosing what they eat for lunch.

So, if elementary kids are old enough to decide what to eat and their choices cause life endangering health issues. Does this mean the parents are off the hook for possible child abuse charges?

Since when does a child know whats best for them? That is why adults are responsible for them up until they turn 18.

This reality show delivered the shock value all such tv needs, and once I shook off the astonishment at the fact that the kids had no clue what a tomato, potato, or any other actual vegetable looked like, you could see where the root cause of the problem lay: squarely at the feet of the parents.

The health and mental acuity costs that convenience foods impose, laden as they are with sodium, nitrates, sugars and saturated fats, are not worth it. And I know it takes time to change, especially when kids are fed junk at home, but this notion that kids can choose for themselves what they eat is really annoying and without meriit.

[...] speaking of what kids like, even though the show is not yet over, an evaluation has been done on the success of the school food in Jamie Oliver’s Food Revolution series. It doesn’t appear to have been a success. At [...]

Gee, kids would prefer eating sugar laden junk food to healthy, nutritious food. What a surprise.

The question should not be what kids prefer to eat, but what they should be eating. Kids should not have the option of drinking HFCS laden milk at school, home, or anywhere else. They also should be presented with the same kind of food Jamie serves at school at home, and told ‘EAT OR STARVE.”

Believe me, no kid will choose starve. It’s time we stop catering to kids and feeding them what they want and giving them what they should be eating at both school and at home.

I am so sick of people saying “but Johnny won’t eat that.” Johnny won’t eat that because he knows damn well that if he doesn’t eat the grilled chicken now, he’ll get a processed chicken nugget later. If Johnny knew that there was no processed chicken nugget in his future, you can bet for damn sure that grilled chicken would be devoured.

It may wake up some people as to the slop that is served in many schools. Plus the fact that people, adults included, don’t know the difference between asparagas and brussel sprouts. This literally happened to me at the check-out last week. The young man couldn’t identify a bunch of asparagas.

Like climate change it takes a long time to reach the alarm and crisis level. It takes a miracle to take half this time to remediate the damage, yet everyone is looking at quick fixes.
Jamie Oliver is not a nutritionist, he should have enlisted the help of one, like you for example, among others, namely:
_ Bureaucrats with some conscience in the USDA.
_ Capitalists with some conscience (an oxymoron?) in the TV network (think about the Ragu ad that considered that processed tomato crap as fresh vegetable replacing the broccoli the kid was sneaking out to the dog), the advertising industry, the lobbyists, the food producers, etc.
- Politicians with some conscience (another oxymoron?) in all the sectors dealing with the policy and distribution of foods
_ Parents and educators with some common sense on top of their professed unlimited love for their children, though as we know common sense is not necessarily common.
_ Last but not least, dietitians and nutritionists who do not easily subscribe to the belief that an optimal diet can be fulfilled by the heavily processed offerings in which the illusion of adequacy is masked under the labeling and fortification system. They should be in the forefront of experts for people to consult in matters of food and nutrition as related to health, and not the celebrities, even those with Ph.Ds and MDs who are trained in other fields of expertise.

After watching the show, I received an email from my son’s elementary school. They are starting to serve breakfast. Guess what was on the menu – breakfast pizza, and donuts! I was so upset I called the school food supervisor and expressed my concern and asked how a donut could be considered a healthy way to start the day? Their response – it meets the grain requirements. My next question – How many grams of sugar are in the donuts? She didn’t know, so we made an appointment next week so I can look through their “book” and find the data I want. Should be interesting. I still can’t believe that “the system” thinks this type of food is in the best interest of our children, because it isn’t. Nothing like getting our kids on a sugar high then sending them straight into the classroom. The real question here is what can I do to change it?

We need to stop saying things like “kids will only eat (fill in the blank).” I will repeat: The only reason kids eat the way they do is because the adults in their lives are under the misguided and lazy notion that there are “kid foods” and “adult foods.” The food marketers love it that way, but it’s patently untrue.

Kids who grow up eating real food will eat real food. Even when they’re older, kids will shift to real food if the adults in their lives are consistent about it.

This is not about catering to kids’ tastes — it’s about getting adults to stop thinking kids will eat only certain (usually unhealthy) things.